Date:    Thu, 9 Nov 1995 03:56:53 -0500
From:    Michael Cysouw
Subject: Leading-Following

Ray Penalva wrote:

>And what can we say about that issue of who is the leader ?. He must
>be ?    She must be...?   Who ?  B-)
[snap]
>So you see, it is not important who leads but how it is done.
>I know most argentinian milongueros of today will feel uncomfortable
>relinquishing the leading role but just wait a generation and we'll see.

I consider myself to be of the younger generation working on the equalizing
of the leading and the following role. I'm searching for a way for some
years now.

The main reason to abandon the strict leading of the man is, in my case,
that I became fed up with leading all the time. The first time this
happened, some years ago, was when tango was just steps and figures to me,
haven't not then dicovered the 'real' tango. We just worked on improvising
from both sides, trying to react to each other. The most beautiful moment I
remember was when we just stood still for some beats, because we both
waited for the other to take the initiative, but no one did.

When I discovered tango to be much more then just steps and figures, I
abandoned the leading-following problem, but now it is back completely,in a
much more promising way.

One of the things that 'real' tango is (IMO), is *not* leading the steps of
the woman. You have to lead the movement of the body, lead an intention,
but let herself make the steps to it. Depending on how she makes het steps
(I mean very basic properties like the impuls and exact position, not (in
the first place) adornments etc.), the leading is influenced by it.
>From here it is a small step for the woman to take over the lead: it
consists just of 'making the step' a little bit more different then
intended by the leader, so the 'leading-being-influenced-by-the-woman'
changes into 'following-the-woman'.

The main problem at the moment is to get the women to really do things
themselves. They are almost all so used to following, that they mostly
don't even think of doing something out of their own volition. A few ladies
here start to get some confidence, so let's just wait and work. (Note that
this is a problem for me, as it seems like I'm very much alone here as a
leader to try to abandon the leading, or ain't I?)

bye
Michael Cysouw
Nijmegen, Holland

Date:    Sun, 12 Nov 1995 04:51:34 -0500
From:    L Daniel Trenner
Subject: Daniel T on Exchanging Lead and Follow

First off thank you all for the feedback on my last posting. Second, I want
to apologise in advance for not quoting from all the various postings I have
been reading and responding point by point. There is just not enough time for
me, or I'm not efficient enough in managing all this information.
Next I want to ask if there is anyone in Argentina reading in on this list.
 Here we are interneting about tango and most, if not all of us are living in
the "first" world. I think this is important to keep in mind, especially when
we get the urge to be sticky about our opinions.
In Argentina during the last ten years or so there was one milonguero who was
most famous for his domination of the followers role. When he taught me to do
lifts he made me lift him and he, at about 180 pounds, made my 110 pound
technically trained female partner feel like a brick. He was so fast at
decorations that his style of doing followers adornments has influenced the
entire generation of young stage dancers, I'm speaking of the followers, who
have in turn influenced the new generation of social dancers, which is one
good reason for the emergence of such creative following in the present
generation of young tango dancers, both European and American.
He was a humble man who almost never performed, prefering to let his students
take the limelight, but who delighted us with two exceptional performances in
the years before his death.
In 1989 he performed as the follower at the last "homanaje"
to Virulazo at Glorias Argentinas, in Mataderos, following Virulazo himself,
as was fitting being that he had been the practice partner of Virulazo when
they were young men.
Some years latr he performed in a playful piece put together by Carlos Gomez
and Carlos Riverola for an evening at Jorge Manganelli's fridays at Akarense,
in Villa Urquiza, where he and Pepito Avelleneda where enlisted to play the
godfathers of two gangs and where the culmination was where he followed
Pepito.
I am of course refering to Antonio Todaro.
Antonio's special fondness for dancing the followers part well is well known
among Argentines, but it would be a mistake to label him an exception.  While
it is true that since the epoch of feminine participation in the tango
practices in BA the older milongueros have for the most part shuned exchange
of lead and follow, that unfortunate turn of events has much more to do with
cultural homophobia and shame than it has to do with the tango.
The same milongueros who will not dance with each other or with the younger
men in front of women, will all tell you both about the history of the dance
being invented by men, and of the tradition of the men's practice, where men
danced with men to hone their skills for the social dance.
What fewer of them will talk about is how some of the men used to specialize
in the followers role and how they were fought over in the practices because
only with such a partner did one really have the opportunity to prepare at a
high level.
What they will all tell you is how they were forced by their elders to dance
the woman's part for months before they were allowed to lead.
The dance having been created and perfected in a gender segregated
environment, movement was continually swapped back and forth between lead and
follow roles, as it continues to be today.  One's experiential knowledge of
both roles enriching one's ability to dance either, and fueling one's
creativity, which is of course the real judge of one's tango character.
One of the unfortunate results of the generally good gender integration of
the Argentine tango practice during the last couple of generations of tango
dancers is the making of this story of the exchange of lead and follow
subliminal rather than overt.  This is the same couple of generations that
has exported the dance with gusto to foriegn shores, and while the foriegners
are from societies when men and women much more easily open to the change of
roles, the tango arrived with a "modern" imprint of shame which has distorted
the natural learning process.
This unfortunate short circuiting of what had been a hundred years or more
practice of exchanging lead and follow among dancers learning to lead is
probably why it is complained about   in all the places that I have been to
dance tango, which is now quite a few, and I don't exaggerate when I say all,
and that includes BA, that there are never enough good leaders.
Interesting, especially because during the golden years of the tango it was
the reverse situation, there always being many more capable male dancers than
women to accompany them.
So to all of the women out there who find men dancing there part distasteful,
I say that it was men who invented your part, and if you distain learning to
lead, well, you don't have learn to lead in order to follow, but consider
please that in the golden age of the tango the woman was supposed to dance a
much quieter and obedient part that that which has evolved today. And that
evolution was inspired by men like Antonio Todaro and Juan Bruno who dreamed
of expanding the follower's part, in part because they enjoy dancing it
themselves.  Most of the new followers decorations are robbed from leads that
preceded them historically and are then made femine to the taste of the
individual follower.
Keep in mind that those same decorations were often embellished footwork
robbed by the leads from the follows, and so on back through improvisational
history to the first walks around the practice floor.
My students are not permited to gender specialize until they have all
mastered the beginning techniques of lead and follow.
To this end steps, like the so called "basic" are not introduced until
students have mastered the elements of walking and leading such walks.
We have had the greatest success with our leads who seem a lot less stressed
out, but that is only natural as we are really following the traditional
Argentine learning process, only making it coeducational.
As to the natural evolution occuring in the social dance due to the
coeducational nature of practice.  It is an interesting paradox, that the
only way to stop it would be to segregate the sexes again, have only men
practice together, and chaperone the women, and not really teach them to
dance, much as it used to be.  We would then set up the woman on a pedestal
again, as the difficult to obtain object of the male desire, and we would
reinvigorate the sharp male competition to obtain them.
Baring such nonsense, there is no turning back.  Those of us interested in
the new state of affairs should turn our full energies to the enjoyment of
what is really a far healthier and more evolved situation. It will demand our
full attentions if we are to keep up.
And men should be aware that with a new generation of very talented women
turning ther attention to mastering our part, that we will be left out of
dance if we don't also become ambidanctrous.
And finally for those who fear any loss of our sensuality, or god forbid our
sexuality, well, I can only speak as a man.  If you know that you are really
a man, then you have nothing to fear.
Best
Daniel

Date:    Sun, 12 Nov 1995 14:31:57 -0800
From:    Larry Carroll
Subject: Re: Exchanging Lead/Follow

In only a few cases have I been lead in tango, both by teachers
to show me how to lead well.

Knowing beforehand that I should relax and let it happen, to wait not
anticipate, I noticed how wonderful it felt. Like Zen meditation.  I
felt very in tune with my body and with gravity and the music, with my
teacher and even with everyone and everything else around me.  I had
the leisure to perceive things I usually couldn't because all my
attention was on doing my job as leader.

So I'm ready for a revolution, where men get the same rights to
dance ecstasy as women!
                                        Larry de Norte America